Curse

Tab · Dec 25, 2007, 11:50 PM // 23:50

Someone may use Rip Enchantment on it.

~ Dan ~ · Dec 25, 2007, 11:52 PM // 23:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicken Ftw

End results like a well-placed Final Thrust?

Sorry, yea.. the "back on topic" line threw me right off. I see ibreak is very good at this.

Div · Dec 26, 2007, 01:23 AM // 01:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by ibreaktoilets

It seems that the Dervish forum is locked in a perpetual cycle:
1. Avatar of Balthazar is not bad thread
2. Why Avatar of balthazar is bad thread
3. Troll thread
4. Bad thread
5. Troll thread
6. Back to step 1

Pretty sure I make the #1 thread.

And I love that little lovebirds discussion you two had going there

Good thing Moko told me about it or else I'd miss out.

LightningHell · Dec 26, 2007, 07:06 AM // 07:06

I really should close this thread.

horseradish · Dec 26, 2007, 07:53 AM // 07:53

Motel 6 is that way.

<---

Sirius-NZ · Dec 26, 2007, 07:58 AM // 07:58

Heh, maybe you should.

The whole "my AoB will pwnzor you" line of reasoning seems to indicate the poster hasn't seen what a good Lyssa or Melandru build will do, or how much better Dwayna handles survivability.

I do see people use them in alliance battles, because of the speed boost... but it is amusing to see claims of it being the best there is for that. News flash: AoB cannot be kept up permanently in PvP. Pious Haste can. And it's cheap.

horseradish · Dec 26, 2007, 08:38 AM // 08:38

It seems that people who like AoB like it because it compresses the necessity of 3 skills into 1 (which is very convenient and well worth the elite slot might I add), while the people who DESPISE AoB dislike it because the other Avatars do things that non-elite dervish skills can't do (which is also very much worth the elite slot for a flexible and versatile profession). Both are viable arguments.

Two of the Avatars are situational (Dwayna, and Grenth). Dwayna for hexes, Grenth for enchant removal, so they aren't that useful unless you know what area or opponent you are fighting against.

The other two (Lyssa and Balthazar) are all around buffers. Balthazar basically makes a juggernaut. Lyssa deals damage out the whazoo and adds energy. They are more convenient and better equipped for all around general play.

Still, Melandru is my favorite, and, imho, the best. Melandru, first because +health in PvE = win, and condition immunity is a huge load off my back. Although not every area in PvE has conditions, it's very common in PvP. I think it's well worth the 25 energy. All you need is the ability to effectively manage your energy. I also find Lyssa intriguing and frickin' beautiful (in a platonic way), but that seems to be just me. ._.

Whirlwind · Dec 26, 2007, 08:53 AM // 08:53

It This whole argument comes down to it all depends on play style. You can't argue that. Don't even try !

Guildmaster Cain · Dec 26, 2007, 09:17 AM // 09:17

This question has the same answer as:

-Best Weapon
-Best profession
-Best team setup
-Best farm build
-Best consumable

Depends on situation/foes

~ Dan ~ · Dec 26, 2007, 12:27 PM // 12:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whirlwind

It This whole argument comes down to it all depends on play style. You can't argue that. Don't even try !

Actually it comes down to the fact AoB sucks, and that those using it have a shit playstyle.

EDIT: Missed this one :-

Quote:

Originally Posted by horseradish

It seems that people who like AoB like it because it compresses the necessity of 3 skills into 1

Since when has +40 AL been a necessity?
Since when has a speed boost been a necessity?
Since when has holy damage been a necessity?

Not to mention that a whole lot of non-elite skills can do those things.

Tab · Dec 26, 2007, 01:03 PM // 13:03

Let me sum up this argument in a few words:
If I was presented with the choice of running AoB or having my scrotum eaten by a pack of wild dogs, I'd have my pants off in a jiffy.

moko · Dec 26, 2007, 02:45 PM // 14:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guildmaster Cain

This question has the same answer as:

-Best Weapon
-Best profession
-Best team setup
-Best farm build
-Best consumable

Depends on situation/foes

no, all wrong.

tell me a situation where i'd want AoB. i'm waiting.

and if you say undeads, bring heart of holy flame + good avatar. pwn damage much?

~ Dan ~ · Dec 26, 2007, 03:22 PM // 15:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mokone

and if you say undeads, bring heart of holy flame + good avatar. pwn damage much?

Aura of Holy Might does holy damage according to a bug on wiki. That skill is pretty sex on any bar regardless of there being undead.

Coloneh · Dec 26, 2007, 04:15 PM // 16:15

AoB sucks because other skills do it better. its not that your using 3 skills instead of 1. these should already be on your bar.

holy damage: Aura of Holy Might. this should be on your skillbar at all times during PvE.

Extra Armor: ANY survival skill. and i might add that most survival skills do it better, good builds(for those who cant kite) carry some defense.

speed boost: Pious haste. this might not always be on your bar, but you dont always need a speed boost. If you need one, this is +33% that can be kept up forever.

Div · Dec 26, 2007, 06:55 PM // 18:55

The only time when +armor and speed boost is useful is in AB, where you run around 99% of the time anyways with warriors c-space on you. Even then I'd take AoL.

Sirugel Kai · Dec 26, 2007, 07:21 PM // 19:21

Ide say its between Lyssa and Melandru

If you know your going to be facing a lot of conditions and really heavy damage then you should take melandru

If your not.. then i would say just get a pretty good lyssa build and go rip through everything you see =X

horseradish · Dec 26, 2007, 08:59 PM // 20:59

By necessity I mean the non-elite skills Coloneh mentions that we should already have. It gives more space for other skills. However, I am not arguing in favor of AoB; I am just saying what it does.

Sirius-NZ · Dec 26, 2007, 09:15 PM // 21:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan-the-noob

Aura of Holy Might does holy damage according to a bug on wiki. That skill is pretty sex on any bar regardless of there being undead.

It does. I've used it against undead and it definitely doubles damage.

While AoB is a 3-in-1, the problem is it's the wrong three buffs. +40 armor is good, but not a show-stopper; holy damage is sometimes useful, sometimes meh, but it does at least reduce opponents to their base armor; and speed just isn't useful in most situations.

Contrasting with Melandru, even in AB:
- AoB has a handy speed boost, but you only need that when it's useful - attacking a shrine doesn't qualify - thus it doesn't really need to be part of the skill
- AoM has Earth, against which few things have extra armor, AoB has Holy, against which basically nothing has extra armor (Necros can even take more damage); in other words AoB is better against Earthbound rangers and Tormented (I think?) necroes - neither of which are necessarily common
- AoB has +40 armor, AoM has +100 HP; in melee, AoB wins; against armor-ignoring attacks and hexes, AoM wins.
- AoM has condition immunity. Which is obviously better than a speed boost, with all the crippling/blinding going about.

So in two attributes AoB is marginally to very marginally better; in the other it's far worse. While a Melandru build can make up for all the weaknesses over Balthazar, vice-versa is not true; there is no condition immunity skill in the game apart from Avatar of Melandru.

Hence why it's not really very good a skill. If it had a permanent attack speed boost, I'd change my mind immediately since the only thing I've found that compares is Frenzy, and it has an obvious downside. Right now, though, it's a collection of three too-unrelated and too-replaceable skills.

Oh, and I used to use AoB quite a bit for PvE, for the record. But once I found out how weak it was compared to Lyssa, I never turned back...

Bowstring Badass · Dec 26, 2007, 09:33 PM // 21:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius-NZ

Oh, and I used to use AoB quite a bit for PvE, for the record. But once I found out how weak it was compared to Lyssa, I never turned back...

Why would you ever use it.

on topic-

It is a matter of preference but AoB is crap compared to the others as the others are actually useful.

Sirius-NZ · Dec 26, 2007, 10:04 PM // 22:04

Two reasons:
1. I didn't know better

2. I had issues with my Dervish dying a lot, so expected AoB would address that. It did, especially in tandem with Stoneflesh Aura, but it didn't do wonders for DPS.